>> Support for "AI: Unpacking the Black Box" comes from viewers like you and from Goodwill Keystone Area.

It's the last tea party for Krista with Miss Marshmallow and Sarah's first day of management training at Goodwill.

When you donate to Goodwill, you help provide skills, training, and career placement, and the things you loved start a new life, too.

>> Imagine yourself standing in a field, the sun beating down on your face.

You're one of our earliest ancestors, and you've just witnessed a devastating storm ravage all of your crops.

The livelihood you've worked for so hard to build lies in ruins before you.

Now, as you survey the destruction, a thought forms in your mind -- the sun must be angry.

Now you drop to your knees, hands outstretched in supplication.

You offer what little you have left -- a handful of undamaged grain, a prayer whispered on your trembling lips -- anything to appease the celestial deity you believe controls your fate.

In this moment, you're experiencing the birth of religion -- our primitive attempt to understand, control, and find meaning in a world that often seems chaotic and indifferent.

Now let's fast-forward.

You're Sarah, a young woman living in a not-so-distant future.

Your world has been transformed by artificial intelligence.

As you start your day, you barely notice how seamlessly AI is integrated into every aspect of your life.

You wake up in a house built by AI-controlled robots, its temperature and lighting perfectly adjusted for your comfort.

You eat your breakfast prepared with ingredients grown in AI-optimized vertical farms, each bite perfectly balanced for your nutritional needs.

Now, as you head to work, you step in to a self-driving car guided by an AI traffic system, and it knows every optimal route.

Before you even think to ask, you head to your two-hour shift at your job -- you got called in, so you'll have to work eight hours this week instead of your normal four -- where you partner with an AI to diagnose and cure diseases, all that were once thought incurable.

Nanobots, which are tiny, little robots, work away in an invisible world, not only wiping out disease, but allowing "users" to select upgrade packages.

You offer your customers the option of three different life-extension packages, essentially pausing cell aging.

Through your work, you see AI systems distribute resources with perfect efficiency, ending hunger and poverty.

Any question you have, any information you need is instantly provided by the AI that's woven into the fabric of your world.

Now, this AI is omnipresent, it's all-knowing, and seemingly all-powerful.

It has reshaped the world, solving problems that have plagued humanity for millennia.

Yet as you go about your day, you don't bow before this AI, you don't offer it sacrifices, and you don't pray to it for favor.

You simply accept its presence as a normal part of your life, much like we accept electricity or the Internet today.

Now, as we delve into the intersection of AI and religion in this episode, I want you to consider how different is the AI in your life from the sun god of our ancestors?

And what does the rise of AI mean for our traditional religious beliefs and practices?

Join me as we explore these questions and more as we continue to journey to unpack the black box.

>> Pope Francis has now spoken four times in the past four months on artificial intelligence.

And he was invited to the G7 summit in June, which he attended.

And everybody was surprised, 'cause he's never done that before.

And I remember the next day, several newspapers called me and asked for my impressions or my opinion.

And I said, "I'm just as shocked as everybody else."

This issue is very important.

What is the nature of the human being?

What is the relationship between the mind and the brain?

What is the destiny of the human race?

What does the intellect actually do?

You know, is there a soul?

Is there a soul in the human being?

One of the things that I tell my students when we talk about AI is that it's important to have a philosophical framework.

Let me give you an example.

I was speaking with an engineer at Google.

He wanted to know, you know, all about the Catholic Church's point of view, and I said, well, the Catholic Church states that a human being has a soul.

It is a composite substance between the soul and the body which creates the human being, and the intellect is the result of the soul.

What he was trying to do was upload the mind into some sort of digital space or digital format.

And I said, "Well, you can't do that."

And he says, "Well, why can't we just separate the soul from the body?"

And I said, "Well, you can, but that's called death."

I said you can upload certain aspects of the mind, the internal senses.

And there are three -- the common sense, fantasy, and memory -- because those are based in a physical dimension of the brain.

But you cannot upload other dimensions of the brain, like abstract reasoning.

In the 1600s, Francis Bacon wrote a book about how we can recover immortality that was lost due to original sin through technology -- Well, he uses the words "arts and sciences," but today we would translate -- He wrote in Latin.

We would translate the Latin into technology.

There's a profound insight there, with God created us to be immortal.

Human beings were not supposed to die in the book of Genesis.

And then we shared the story about that with the Jews and the Muslims.

These are the three Abrahamic religions.

We all have Abraham as our father.

God created Adam and Eve as our first parents, and they committed a sin of disobedience and pride and therefore lost the three -- what are called the three supernatural gifts, uh, immortality being, uh, the most important one.

I consider -- And I'm Catholic, so I consider our destiny to be eternal life.

We die, and then we're -- hopefully we live with God forever.

That's the real life, you know, eternal life.

This is just a passing, as Plato says.

We're here for some years, and then we're gone.

Now, if this is all we have and you don't believe that there's an eternal life, well, then, sure, you want to, you know, continue on in this life for as long as you can.

The most important intellect we find in nature is the human intellect, and therefore we consider animal intellects -- Animals have intellects, too, especially the higher forms like chimpanzees, dolphins, even elephants.

Elephants can recognize themselves in a mirror, but they -- they don't have the power of abstract reasoning that human intellects do.

Now, in the greater scheme, we have two higher intellects in the world -- the angelic intellect, which is that of the angels, which are non-embodied.

And this is why it's going to be important for AI.

It's an unembodied intellect.

And then, of course, we have the divine intellect, which is absolute and infinite, et cetera.

So that's the highest form of an intellect that we have in the universe.

Okay, so we're going beyond nature.

Now, some people have suggested that AI will be a disembodied intellect.

Now, why is that not correct?

It's not correct because of the act of being.

An AI is similar to a disembodied intellect, because an AI does not need to, uh, turn to sensate knowledge in order to know.

It does so through logical calculations independently of the senses, which is similar to what the angelic intellect does.

The angelic intellect does not have a body, so it knows through its own essence, Aquinas says, but it has an act of being, whereas an AI does not.

Only things that are alive can be conscious.

An AI cannot become conscious in the way that we are because it's not alive.

>> Could God communicate with us through AI?

>> If God were to communicate through the AI in some way, I believe we would immediately understand that as something superior to the AI, and God could do that.

I'm not sure why He would, but God can communicate through anything.

I mean, He's infinite, and so -- but I think here's what would happen, is that you would immediately recognize the presence of God in some way, because now, on the other -- on the other side of the interaction, you no longer have an inert, dead AI.

You now have the voice of God.

And there are many examples in the Bible about this.

St. Peter on the mountain Tabor, when Jesus is transfigured in front of him, he's like, "Wow!"

I mean, they didn't say, "Wow."

But, I mean, that was kind of...

The human being would register the divine presence as, "Oh!"

you know.

They intuit something outrageous, something incredible.

>> Islamic ethics, much of it is universalist in its discourse, right?

So we have to remember there's ethical responsibility in the way we use these instruments, right?

So ultimately, human responsibility is key.

If we're going to use AI technologies, you know, with, uh, you know -- with the immense power that they have, to try to communicate between cultures, languages, theology, spiritualities, right, to help understand each other, we just need to recognize that these technologies aren't giving us the entire truth and the entirety of the truth.

We could imagine tools where we can put in a concept like, you know, divine grace in a Christian concept and say, okay, yeah, and what similar concepts do we have to grace, you know, in the Islamic tradition or the Buddhist tradition?

Or we can talk about compassion from Buddhist traditions or Christian traditions.

You know, how can we understand compassion from different perspectives?

And how might compassion be a good framework to think about the development of AI and robotics.

The Islamic tradition and Islamic scripture is, you know, explicit about the human responsibility of stewardship.

And although the eating of meat is generally seen as political in the Islamic tradition, you know, care for the animals and ethics of consumption and sustainability are rooted actually within our core scriptural sources.

But, you know, we don't have an explicit scripture talking about lab-generated, you know, meat replacements, right?

So the question, is this permissible?

Is this not permissible?

So there's this basic human need, human imperative to be compassionate, right?

Yeah, to each other, to the animals, to creation at large, right?

So although it may be permissible to eat meat, okay, yeah, on a daily basis, yeah, we could make a strong Islamic argument to say this is not compassionate to our creation at large in the way that the animals are raised, yeah, and enhance and artificially produce meat replacements may well be absolutely preferable to the way we're slaughtering meat and we're wanting respect, too.

So, of course, the Islamic tradition, like other Abrahamic traditions, has ideas of angels and jinns, yeah, of non-material beings.

The Qur'an explicitly affords space for moral accountability in other-than-human beings.

There's been a strong trend in Abrahamic tradition -- so Jewish, Christian, Muslim -- to say that, look, actually moral accountability and consciousness, these are parts of human -- and rationality, actually, right, okay, has been part of human distinctiveness.

And I think sometimes the pushback that we get into these hypothetical or theoretical questions about consciousness of AI technologies, they're seen as a challenge to human exceptionalism or human uniqueness.

So if AI can do what a human does, if an AI can think, okay, and be morally accountable like a human does, what does that do to my humanity?

Human distinctiveness is more than just reason and moral accountability.

It's about an ability to demonstrate the beauty of God, okay, in the way that we be with each other.

So it's about reason.

It's about love.

It's about...

But it's about range, perspective, which might not necessarily need to be challenged by the advances of technology and the ultimate tool.

Even for humans, moral accountability is proportional to capacity.

Just because something is capable of moral agency doesn't mean that everybody has the same moral agency and the same moral capacity.

Could that accountability also be eschatological?

Alright, so to include some life beyond this life?

There may be space within the Islamic tradition for that.

But are we there yet when we come to the development of AI technologies?

I don't think so.

Yeah, I would first and foremost see these as tools which humans are using, yeah, what corporate organizations are using.

And so the moral question pertains to how we're developing and using these tools.

There we have responsibility, whether that's designers or whether it's regulators or whether it's users.

Responsibility here.

And if you're a believer, responsibility in the hereafter.

>> I think we're 5 to 10 years away from being able to harness quantum computers that are multi-purpose.

Right now, quantum computers are so powerful, they can do problems that would take thousands of years on a digital computer, but only one problem at a time.

But I think within the next 5 to 10 years, we'll have multipurpose quantum computers that can handle a series of problems simultaneously and then be able to solve practical problems, like the aging process.

We're now beginning to understand why we get old, why we die.

So the whole question of eternal life is now on the table.

And so things that were way beyond our capabilities, like, for example, aging, mentioned in the Bible, these technologies are now within the realm of solvability.

Some people think that it may have philosophical, even religious implications as to who we are and what does it all mean.

If you take a look at Isaac Newton, he initiated the era of determinism -- that is, reality determines consciousness, reality being the reality of cannonballs, spaceships, planets, things that you can calculate with.

That, in turn, help us understand consciousness, the neural level of information flow within the brain.

Then comes the quantum theory, which turns things upside down.

The quantum theory says, well, consciousness is required for measurement, and measurement determines existence.

So in some sense, reality is a byproduct of consciousness.

It takes a conscious brain to make a measurement to determine the state of an atom.

Now comes Buddhism.

In Buddhism, reality can be altered by consciousness.

Does reality create consciousness?

Does consciousness create reality?

Or can reality be altered by consciousness?

These are the great philosophical questions of our time.

>> What makes humans unique?

We are a part of the natural world.

We are animals, like everything that has evolved on this planet.

And yet there is something qualitatively different about our ability to think and reflect.

And I think where AI has become different is because it mimics humans in a way that other technologies haven't.

That's where sort of the existential questions come in.

There are a few differences between Judaism and Christianity.

Christianity's big question is essentially, is it true, or is it false?

Is Jesus the Son of God and the Messiah or not?

And if you don't believe that that's true, then you're not a Christian.

There's no point of being a Christian if you don't believe that that's true in some capacity.

Judaism's focus is not so much about true versus false as it is about right versus wrong.

It's much more of a question about ethics than it is about truth.

There's questions about ethics in Christianity.

There's questions about truth in Judaism.

But the question in Judaism is not so much, is this literally true or not?

It is much more of a question of, how is this going to impact our society right now?

And the other thing that I think is a big difference between Judaism and Christianity, at least fundamentalist Christianity, is that while Judaism does start with the Torah and start with the Bible, Judaism in its practice today is not biblical.

It is Rabbinic with a capital R. The rabbis were people who lived around the same time of Jesus and a few hundred years later, of interpretations and texts.

So questions about technology and AI, they're not in the Bible, they're not in the Talmud.

But there are questions of, how do we deal with sentience?

How do we deal with ideas that are coming up?

Probably the best example of AI and Judaism where it comes up is autonomous vehicles and driverless cars.

So, did driverless cars exist during the time of the Bible and the time of the Talmud?

Of course not, right?

Except they did, because what were people using in farming in biblical times and Rabbinic times?

They were using animals.

There's a discussion in Exodus, and then there's a discussion that -- there's a whole discussion in the Talmud about limited liability.

Who is -- It's not a question of if an ox is going to gore somebody.

It's a question of when.

Who is ultimately responsible?

What are the responsibilities of an ox that people know is going to gore, whether it's by accident?

Has the person been warned?

So, like, yeah, there's a lot of discussion of non-human intelligence.

There are a lot of things that exist in this world that don't have human intelligence.

So Judaism has a lot to say about these kinds of questions.

Where AI is right now, you know, you would say the ox is malicious.

The ox is not malicious.

The ox is an ox.

There are questions of the liability of who owns what that -- you know, who owns those questions.

So when we're thinking about a level of sentience, it is a question of who or what is ultimately responsible.

I think where a lot of the questions that come in in Judaism are, would it be the person who programs the algorithm?

Is it the person who owns the car that kills somebody?

That's where I think a lot of the questions come up, and there's -- I think there's some good legal discussions on there.

In terms of whether or not it could replace humanity, that's one where you can't necessari-- it's hard to define what it actually means to be a person.

Judaism is a religion that deals with responsibilities to the divine, responsibilities towards each other, being commanded, being in covenant with God.

And that is something that an artificial intelligence cannot have.

Are there going to be questions where people may look to Jewish law and an AI?

Um, I think that's a question of -- it's a question of, yes, that's going to happen, but I think that's going to happen, ideally, in conversation with rabbinic experts and Jewish experts.

AI can be able to help, say, like, here are some texts that you might be able -- that you may want to look at.

And then ultimately, it's the human who makes that decision.

Is it going to be easier for an AI to be able to create a wedding homily or a sermon?

Yeah, of course it is.

And it's not going to feel anywhere close to as powerful and meaningful as having that human perspective.

In Judaism, almost anything is acceptable to be able to preserve someone's life.

And at the same time, Judaism recognizes that -- that everyone dies.

It says in the Torah that God says the life-span of somebody is going to be 120 years.

There is an idea in Judaism that, like, people live for a certain amount of time, and then it's time for the next generation to come in.

I think a lot of religion is the question of, how do we deal with death and recognizing that we have a finite amount of time on this earth.

And I think that's sad and that's scary.

I think it's also enormously positive, right?

I think somebody said, "Morality exists because of mortality."

>> As we conclude our journey through the intricate landscape of AI and religion and faith, I invite you to reflect deeply on your life as Sarah.

The artificial intelligence that governs your world is, in many ways, indistinguishable from the gods of ancient times.

It possesses knowledge of all things.

It wields the power to heal the sick and feed the hungry, and it shapes the very fabric of our society with an invisible hand.

Yet, curiously, you don't worship it.

Its godlike nature goes unacknowledged, actually, in your daily life -- a silent omnipresence that guides your world without a demand for reverence.

Now, this paradox leads us to confront some profound questions about the nature of divinity and our relationship with higher powers.

What, in essence, is divinity to you?

Is it merely the possession of vast power and knowledge, or is there something more intangible, more spiritual at its core?

As you witness AI continue to advance in your world, pushing the boundaries of what you once thought was impossible, do you believe it will eventually supplant traditional religious beliefs?

Or perhaps will it inspire new forms of faith and spirituality, blending the technological with the transcendent in ways we can scarcely imagine?

Now, perhaps the most crucial question for you to ponder is this -- As you live alongside entities with godlike powers, are you at risk of losing sight of your own humanity?

The story of human spirituality is far from over.

Indeed, it may be entering its most fascinating chapter yet.

This transformation could lead to a new age of enlightenment, where technology and spirituality and faith merge to create a more profound understanding of our existence.

Alternatively, it could usher in a world devoid of spiritual wonder, where the mysteries that once inspired awe are replaced by cold, calculable certainties.

The direction this transformation takes is, in no small part, up to you and others like you who stand at this unique juncture in human history.

As you navigate this crossroads of technology and faith, remember that the power to shape the future lies not in the circuits of AI, but in your hearts and your minds.

The choice of what to believe, what to value, and what to hold sacred remains, as always, uniquely human.

Will you find ways to use AI as a tool for spiritual growth, or will you seek to preserve spaces in your life untouched by its influence?

How will you balance the benefits of AI's vast capabilities with the preservation of human agency and the pursuit of purpose?

Now, as we look to the future, it's clear that the relationship between humanity, technology, and spirituality will continue to evolve in complex and unexpected ways.

The challenges and opportunities that lie ahead are as exciting as they are daunting.

Until next time, I encourage you to keep questioning, keep exploring, and keep seeking meaning in this rapidly changing world.

Engage in discussions about these issues with others.

Challenge your own assumptions and remain open to new possibilities.

As AI continues to advance, perhaps our most important task is to ensure that this quintessentially human quality -- our ability to question, to wonder, to seek meaning -- remains at the forefront of our existence.

Thank you for joining me on this exploration of the complex interplay between AI, religion, and faith.

As we continue to navigate this brave new world, may we do so with wisdom, compassion, and an unwavering commitment to our shared humanity.

I look forward to our next journey together as we continue to unravel the mysteries that are the black box.

>> Support for "AI: Unpacking the Black Box" comes from viewers like you and from Goodwill Keystone Area.

It's the last tea party for Krista with Miss Marshmallow and Sarah's first day of management training at Goodwill.

When you donate to Goodwill, you help provide skills, training, and career placement, and the things you loved start a new life, too.

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